Worst Tech Support Call With Dell. You Suck Dell.
All the way back in June, I decided to purchase a Dell Inspiron E1505 notebook. Since that time, there has been good and bad times. The battery said “critical failure” in BIOS, and required replacement, and I’ve been through not one but two keyboards. These weren’t the worst of things however. The slot which I so wrongly assumed was PCMCIA, turned out to be express card. After doing some research as to what this thing was, and how to find wireless cards that support it, I finally figured I’d just have a chat with dell. It started off as a normal support conversation, with the typical Dell employee. I tried to go into the chat with a non superior attitude, because let’s be honest; techies know much more than “technical support”. I began by asking a simple question:
alex bailey: “uhm what kind of express card comes with these things”
After repeating the question, because his lack of comprehension the first time, he answers :
The latest extension of the PCMCIA standard is called ExpressCard. This standard is being built on the latest USB 2.0 and PCI Express buses. The aim is to increase speed and reduce size, cost, and complexity. One of the ways it does this is to eliminate the PCMCIA Host Controller in favor of using the USB or PCI Express controller directly..
That’s swell and all, but it’s not even close to what I asked for. Then I get the only helpful thing from the whole conversation, which is this link. Anyways from that link you can read what kind of cards they are by looking at the images. Mine was ExpressCard 54. He then chimes in:
This might also be of assistance.
That’s not even a wireless card. All that does is let you get internet from anywhere. It’s sort of like a cell phone. They are teamed up with Verizon trying to push these things on people. He then says:
And also let me know if you are looking to use any PCMCIA card with your system
Wow, did I not just get through telling him I have NO PCMCIA slots in this whole laptop? Throughout the conversation he continues to send me links to PCMCIA cards, for utterly no reason. I got this link for a sata controller, which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. After asking him for adapters, he pastes a MSN live search engine query for “USB adaper for cardbus”. Gee I can use search engines too, thanks for being so helpful. Pasted next was a store in the U.K selling a $180 USB adapter, and then a blog talking about a $200 adapter. After figuring this was useless I asked to be transferred to sales. They ought to know a thing or two about wireless cards, right? Woah, that was such a terrible assumption.
Welcome to Dell Sales Chat. My name is Jodes. I’ll be your personal sales agent. How may I help you with your purchase today?
You i need an express card 54 wireless card that supports linux
BE_Rep_Jodes You mean you need a computer?
You sorry hold a bit i’m laughing so hard i’m choking
After that I basically realized that this was futile. After 5 minutes, waiting she came back with a link to an internal PCI wireless card. At least this rep didn’t paste me a sata controller. She then sent me the same link to that mobile broadband card, and claimed it was the same as a wireless card. After explaining to her that I wanted a NIC card, and not an ISP, she asked me why I needed a wireless card. Apparently wireless internet is still a rare commodity in India.
BE_Rep_Jodes Why do you need a wireless card?
In short Dell sold me an utterly useless laptop that has no room for expansion. There are no cards available for Express Card 54, and a USB to PCMCIA adapter is $200. Thanks Dell.
I think all big companies with “chat-support” just load up their employee’s keyboards with scripted responses to all of their F-keys, and if you ask a question that is not exactly something they’ve scripted a response for, they just have to pick those closest one. I suspected once it wasn’t a real person at all on the other end–just some halfway intelligent software, and tried to throw it a curveball by asking about the latest King of Queens episode, but the response was still canned, “Sorry, I can’t discuss personal matters” or something like that.
[quote comment="3652"]I think all big companies with “chat-support” just load up their employee’s keyboards with scripted responses to all of their F-keys, and if you ask a question that is not exactly something they’ve scripted a response for, they just have to pick those closest one. I suspected once it wasn’t a real person at all on the other end–just some halfway intelligent software, and tried to throw it a curveball by asking about the latest King of Queens episode, but the response was still canned, “Sorry, I can’t discuss personal matters” or something like that.[/quote]
Yea, if you ask a question that isn’t in the database, they will just make up the question you asked. For instance if I said “I’m wondering where can I find a list of express cards that are available?” He would answer “*insert name here*, I would like to help you with this matter. If I understand correctly you are looking to purchase an ExpressCard for your *insert laptop here*” The correct answer would have been expresscar...ns_wtb.jsp
My name is John, and I am a customer advocate at Dell headquarters.
I apologize that what you’ve outlined here occured, as it obviously isn’t the way these communications should have transpired. I am more than willing to provide any assistance to you that I can.
Although this blog outlines a very horrible experience with our support representatives, I am a little confused about one detail regarding this situation. Since no configuration of the e1505 orderable through our website or through any other means that I can find does not include an internal MiniPCIE wireless adapter, I am confused as to why you would want to be installing a second wireless adapter through your express card slot, as no real performance benefic can be gained in this way.
Regardless, if you wish to order a PC Express 802.11g wireless adapter, on can be found here: accessorie...u=430-1558
The dell part number is 430-1558.
If you need any assistance whatsoever, please feel free to contact me at customer_advocate@dell.com
John
Dell Customer Advocate
[quote comment="3757"]My name is John, and I am a customer advocate at Dell headquarters.
I apologize that what you’ve outlined here occured, as it obviously isn’t the way these communications should have transpired. I am more than willing to provide any assistance to you that I can.
Although this blog outlines a very horrible experience with our support representatives, I am a little confused about one detail regarding this situation. Since no configuration of the e1505 orderable through our website or through any other means that I can find does not include an internal MiniPCIE wireless adapter, I am confused as to why you would want to be installing a second wireless adapter through your express card slot, as no real performance benefic can be gained in this way.
Regardless, if you wish to order a PC Express 802.11g wireless adapter, on can be found here: accessorie...u=430-1558
The dell part number is 430-1558.
If you need any assistance whatsoever, please feel free to contact me at customer_advocate@dell.com
John
Dell Customer Advocate[/quote]
Can I assume Dell has a handful of staff members that scour the internet looking for bad reviews? Anyways my issue is with Dell selling express card slots in their laptops without offering an opt out option. Express card is 2 years old, and STILL not taking off. There are no cards for it, and if there are, they are expensive. My issue with the internal card is that it 1.) has the worst range of any card I’ve ever seen. 2.) doesn’t have native linux drivers. I don’t want another Dell card, because I assume I’ll have the same issues. With PCMCIA I already have cards with native linux support, with excellent range. The only adapter on the market is $200. Not helpful.
Yes, your assumption is basically correct. I am part of a team of representatives who engage customers in the blogosphere to attempt to reach resolutions to any problems they post about.
What kind of range issue are you experiencing? The antenna on the internal card is actually more robust than any provided with a CardBus or ExpressCard alternative, as the antenna on the internal card actually runs up one side of the LCD. The range on these cards is noted to be as good or better than external card solutions in the technical documentation.
As for the driver support, Dell offers 3 internal card solutions:
Broadcom 1390 b/g WLAN Mini Card
Broadcom 1490 a/b/g WLAN Mini Card
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 a/b/g WLAN Mini Card
If these card types (which are actually quite common, in Dell systems and systems from other vendors) are not supportable in Linux I would be very surprised. I know from a quick perusal of technical forums that the Intel card DOES have native Linux drivers, and there are definitely workarounds for the Broadcom cards which will enable your distribution of Linux to utilize those cards.
The reason PCMCIA is removed on modern Inspirons is that CardBus is incompatible with PCI-E. ExpressCard is compatible with both PCI-E and USB 2.0, and as technology is moving forward towards higher performance, unfortunately compatibility with older legacy devices must eventually be sacrificed. There are currently many card types which are compatible with ExpressCard, as ExpressCard is the latest PCMCIA standard as of Spring 2003.
For more information regarding ExpressCard technology, the following link may be helpful:
expresscar...ite/qa.jsp
As before, I am willing to assist you in any way I can. Let me know if you need any help or have further questions or concerns.
John
Dell Customer Advocate
[quote]
What kind of range issue are you experiencing? The antenna on the internal card is actually more robust than any provided with a CardBus or ExpressCard alternative, as the antenna on the internal card actually runs up one side of the LCD. The range on these cards is noted to be as good or better than external card solutions in the technical documentation.
[/quote]
Yup, saw that when I took it apart. Was wondering how easy it would be to change, because yes I am aware the Intel Pro Wireless chipset is supported natively by linux. Problem is when I bought it, I didn’t know it would be an issue. I’d love to get an Intel Pro Wireless card instead of this Dell one. As for range issues, when I walk outside I could pick up one access point with the dell card. If I use my netgear USB dongle I can pick up about 3. I can almost always pick up more APs with the USB dongle. When I’m on campus, the university’s wifi is all over the campus. However with the Dell internal card, I can’t get it in certain rooms. With the neatgear USB dongle (WPN111) I can pick it up in the ELEVATOR of the building, and anywhere else.
[quote]
The reason PCMCIA is removed on modern Inspirons is that CardBus is incompatible with PCI-E.
[/quote]
Hmm didn’t know that. I guess I rather PCI-E.
[quote]
For more information regarding ExpressCard technology, the following link may be helpful:
[/quote]
Yea I saw that site when I first googled what this slot even was. You should also recommend the wikipedia entry for express card. It’s pretty helpful as well.
[quote]
Yes, your assumption is basically correct. I am part of a team of representatives who engage customers in the blogosphere to attempt to reach resolutions to any problems they post about.
[/quote]
Sounds like a cool job :)
I enjoy my job very much. I have the pleasure of reading blogs like yours and conversing with very interesting people as a result.
I might be willing to do a card exchange for you, free of charge. It would be a slight upgrade, but I wouldn’t mind trading you in this instance. I want to make sure everything you have is working. There may be a performance increase if you were to have the IPW 3945, as technically, it’s a better card.
Send me your order information or service tag if you’d like(customer_advocate@dell.com; attn:John) and I’ll set up the exchange. It sounds like you have enough tech savvy to switch them out. If that doesn’t improve the wireless reception, at least it will improve the Linux experience for you.
As for changing the antenna, it is distributed as part of the LCD kit, so changing it requires changing out the entire LCD assembly. If the antenna DOES have a problem, that’s the route we would have to go. Let me know if that ends up being the case.
John
Dell Customer Advocate
I sent an email (or 3). The subject is “ATTENTION: John CyberKnowledge Blog Conversation.” I’m not sure if it sent three, GMail was acting up for an hour yesterday. I’d send the email, and it spit out error codes, but I think it sent it anyways. Sorry about that.
Thanks, installed it a few days ago. Will return the old one on monday.
>>In short Dell sold me an utterly useless laptop that has no room for expansion.
You need to restate that as, “In short, I bought a laptop that has no room for expansion.” I mean, really, you run a website called Tech Reads. Can you not be entrusted to do a little homework yourself before you buy a laptop? You knew when you bought it what it did and didn’t include. As a linux user, you know that linux on laptops is often difficult and that swapping components in a laptop is much more iffy than a desktop. You were an educated consumer. Dell did nothing wrong at all. What do you possibly have to bitch about?
[quote comment="4589"]>>In short Dell sold me an utterly useless laptop that has no room for expansion.
You need to restate that as, “In short, I bought a laptop that has no room for expansion.” I mean, really, you run a website called Tech Reads. Can you not be entrusted to do a little homework yourself before you buy a laptop? You knew when you bought it what it did and didn’t include. As a linux user, you know that linux on laptops is often difficult and that swapping components in a laptop is much more iffy than a desktop. You were an educated consumer. Dell did nothing wrong at all. What do you possibly have to bitch about?[/quote]
I didn’t care about the built in wireless card working for linux. I had a PCMCIA card that worked fine, and could inject. I just didn’t know it came with Expresscard. Never owned a laptop before.
this always cracks me up, ppl who buy 500$ systems and expect them to make coffee also. Jeez you bought the cheapest system you could find without adv support and then expect the world when you call in. Be realistic, even though it is DELL it doesnt mean you shouldn’t do some research first and realize that a slightly higher model is what you need.
[quote comment="4750"]this always cracks me up, ppl who buy 500$ systems and expect them to make coffee also. Jeez you bought the cheapest system you could find without adv support and then expect the world when you call in. Be realistic, even though it is DELL it doesnt mean you shouldn’t do some research first and realize that a slightly higher model is what you need.[/quote]
I made $1200 for it, nice try though.